Man I'm not sure this is right
Below are thoughts, not concrete facts (not even close)...read at your own risk...
With all the attention given to the presidential race (insert sarcastic half-hearted Yea! here), I've been thinking a bit about the role of Kingdom folks in the governments of this world. I keep finding myself fighting between total apathy and a little guilt over the "freedom" afforded me to live in a country where I can be apathetic. If I consider Pakistan, or the fire consuming Kenya right now, it seems very Western of me to regard all our talk of freedom with eye rolls and cynicism, when in fact I do have an outstanding opportunity to affect change through our government.
History would show the modern western concept of "freedom" is the result of Enlightenment thinkers like Thomas Hobbes reacting against the perpetual religious-political violence of the 17th century by completely separating politics from theology/religion. The modern concept of political freedom, in other words, is an inherently secular concept. While some conservative Christians try to argue that the Constitution of America is somehow rooted in Christianity, it can be argued that it came about only because influential thinkers abandoned Christianity and all religion as a foundation for political thought.
The movement Jesus came to establish -- the Kingdom of God -- can't be identified with the Christian religion. In fact, insofar as the Christian religion hasn't looked like Jesus Christ loving, serving and dying for his enemies (which it hasn't ever really looked like that since he died for us), it contrasts with the Kingdom of God. It's in the interest of all people in the Kingdom to passionately point this sharp contrast out to people.
The modern concept of political freedom is inherently secular. I passionately reject the secular, humanistic, materialistic worldview. But because I think political freedom is a good thing, I just as passionately want to keep religion out of politics (am I going to Hell for this thinking)?
The bottom line is that religion and politics don't mix. Not only are free societies threatened by the mixing of religion with politics, but history shows that mixing politics and religion is disastrous for Christianity. This is what concerns me most.
Interested in relationship with Jesus? Cool, seems like he asks us to do one thing: follow him! We're called to mimic his loving service to all others, even if this entails suffering for enemies (Eph 5:1-2; 1 Pet. 2:20-25). We're not called to pretend that we have any superior wisdom or morality when it comes to resolving political conflicts.
So here I stand...very confused...this is all pretty much in direct conflict with a solid 18 years of vote Republican and picket Planned Parethood or you're going to hell. Comments welcome...
With all the attention given to the presidential race (insert sarcastic half-hearted Yea! here), I've been thinking a bit about the role of Kingdom folks in the governments of this world. I keep finding myself fighting between total apathy and a little guilt over the "freedom" afforded me to live in a country where I can be apathetic. If I consider Pakistan, or the fire consuming Kenya right now, it seems very Western of me to regard all our talk of freedom with eye rolls and cynicism, when in fact I do have an outstanding opportunity to affect change through our government.
History would show the modern western concept of "freedom" is the result of Enlightenment thinkers like Thomas Hobbes reacting against the perpetual religious-political violence of the 17th century by completely separating politics from theology/religion. The modern concept of political freedom, in other words, is an inherently secular concept. While some conservative Christians try to argue that the Constitution of America is somehow rooted in Christianity, it can be argued that it came about only because influential thinkers abandoned Christianity and all religion as a foundation for political thought.
The movement Jesus came to establish -- the Kingdom of God -- can't be identified with the Christian religion. In fact, insofar as the Christian religion hasn't looked like Jesus Christ loving, serving and dying for his enemies (which it hasn't ever really looked like that since he died for us), it contrasts with the Kingdom of God. It's in the interest of all people in the Kingdom to passionately point this sharp contrast out to people.
The modern concept of political freedom is inherently secular. I passionately reject the secular, humanistic, materialistic worldview. But because I think political freedom is a good thing, I just as passionately want to keep religion out of politics (am I going to Hell for this thinking)?
The bottom line is that religion and politics don't mix. Not only are free societies threatened by the mixing of religion with politics, but history shows that mixing politics and religion is disastrous for Christianity. This is what concerns me most.
Interested in relationship with Jesus? Cool, seems like he asks us to do one thing: follow him! We're called to mimic his loving service to all others, even if this entails suffering for enemies (Eph 5:1-2; 1 Pet. 2:20-25). We're not called to pretend that we have any superior wisdom or morality when it comes to resolving political conflicts.
So here I stand...very confused...this is all pretty much in direct conflict with a solid 18 years of vote Republican and picket Planned Parethood or you're going to hell. Comments welcome...
January 4, 2008 at 9:29 PM
I was linked to your blog by a fellow church member of yours, Joyce. We know each other from internet chat.
First, let me say that I am an atheist, have been for as long as I can remember and I'm 59. I was an atheist in a foxhole in Vietnam, and will be one for life.
I have also,over the past few years, become an anti-theist. The actions and agenda of the religious right / evangelical / born again fundamentalists are a great concern to me. Much as I readily demonized all Muslims after 911, I found myself making the same negative generalizations to all Christians.
I just wanted to say that having met Joyce, and seeing the writings of a friend of hers, and your blog, and hearing her reassurance that she, he, and you are not unique among Christians, it has given me a whole new perspective.
Careful, dont get all excited... I totally reject entirely the supernatural, god / gods, etc etc.. But my perspective about all Chrsitians being unthinking, irrational, extremists, driven to suppress evolutionary teaching, mandate prayer in school, declare this a "Chrsitian nation", and impose their beliefs on others has been moderated.
I see now there can be, and are, thinking people of belief who are not driven by religious zeal to ward some nefarious agenda; who do not blindly reject reason and science; who can accept others as moral people irrespective of their belief, or lack thereof; who can seperate the national interest from their religious beliefs and who don't reinvent / rewrite history to support a religious perspective.
I am grateful to Joyce and you for bringing this fact to my attention. She assures me there are many more pople like you out there. I trust and believe her.
I'll sleep better tonight knowing this.
Thank you for who you are, and what you've said here. top
January 6, 2008 at 1:12 AM
AP-
I think that adoption story is from 1970!
Just a heads up so you know the facts surrounding the story.
ME top
January 7, 2008 at 10:01 AM
Bart,
Thanks for the comments...you're always welcome to post here. No conversion attempts, only my thoughts regarding who Jesus is and what that might mean for my life. As far as the adoption story...I wish it was from the 70's, but it's present day. These folks did adopt back in the 70's, but they're trying to right now and facing this battle. top
January 8, 2008 at 8:47 PM
AP-
I'm not trying to be confrontational but that story is 37 years old. The original story is crazy but I also think alot of things have changed since then.
Here's the link to the story written in 1970 from Time (word for word)...
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,877155,00.html
I searched to see if there is anything current and there's not any stories. For accuracy's sake I'd thought you'd like to know.
ME top
January 9, 2008 at 11:21 AM
Me,
You are EXACTLY right. I just looked up the story on CNN, and it was on the Time Greatest 100 stories. It looked so real! The publish date was December 17, 1970, so it had come up that day as a real story. So thank you for your diligence, and even though the story is horrifying, it was 38 years ago.
AP top